1. "Freedom equals choices, which equals consequences, which equals love." How is it actually a demonstration of love to allow people to face the consequences for their actions? How does it demonstrate lack of love to rescue people from the consequences of their chosen behavior?
2. In your opinion, do pastors and believers answer to different standards before God? Why or why not?
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1. "Freedom equals choices, which equals consequences, which equals love." How is it actually a demonstration of love to allow people to face the consequences for their actions? How does it demonstrate lack of love to rescue people from the consequences of their chosen behavior?
ReplyDeleteWell, 1 Timothy 5:19-21 seems to being dealing with specifically an elder. If you put it into context we see that this along with Frank’s question is referring to Church discipline. Looking too Matt 18: 15-20 for more guidance on this topic:
15"If your brother sins against you,[b] go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'[c] 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
18"I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be[d]bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[e] loosed in heaven.
19"Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. 20For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."
However to address Franks specific question, how does it demonstrate love? Well I have learned from my consequences, I have learned what pornography, lust, and addictions can cause and in living through them I have established and become firm on never doing it again! Yes, I fight all the time against those punk demons, but through being harden and smarten through living through my consequences I have been equipped to withstand, and equipped to help fellow brothers. i.e. I have told brothers who want prayer for their wives leaving them and after finding out that they were leaving for adultery, or pornography issues, I would tell them I’ll pray for you, but you better face the music that you let Sin into your relationship and you better get right. I get everything from looks to praise. But we have to accept responsibility. We cannot pat someone on the back and go it’s ok brother……Ah NO if you brought Sin into something then you have to accept that and understand there are consequences! This is the problem with most churches today we pamper and coddle, and make it a Joel Olsten feel good church, well forget that let’s get real and let’s get mid-evil with Sin. So pray with someone, help them find the right scripture, love on them but not for one moment do you lessen his sin, give them the hard Knight Love!
2. In your opinion, do pastors and believers answer to different standards before God? Why or why not?
Short answer-YES cause we know better. We read the word, we speak the word, we are an example of the word to those around us.
1. God is love. I always like to look at the garden for my example of how we should answer this question.
ReplyDeleteDid Adam sin? Yes Did Adam have consequences of his sin? Yes Did this demonstrate love? Yes, because God is love.
The dependency question is demonstrated every day here in Africa. NGO's and people who want to help folks out by giving instead of equipping are damaging whole societies with relief. If you don't plant food you won't eat is my theory. This does not mean we don't love folks. We need to help them learn from their mistakes so it does not happen again and again. If we don't they continue to depend on others to bail them out.
2. Yes, as we have received the light. "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be throughly equipped for every good work." 2 Tim 3:16-17
Phil, that is a good scriptural answer. We all need brothers and sisters to come beside us and effectively give instruction. You see, Jesus knew that when the sin was brought out into the open and the person could see the testimony of witnesses on the act, he or she would repent and change. I think we need still to ask tough questions of each other. How are you doing in that area? Have you been tempted or failed? Teaching each other how to stay away from the temptation that will insnare us. Only love will allow people answer those questions like that truthfully and only Christ is and always will be the power to over come.
ReplyDeleteDad, thank you for reminding us that God Loves us even when we are disciplined. I think the world today through envy and guilt, takes refenge and punishment to an evil level. Movies today give the public a view of punishment that has confused the minds of even Christians. I thank the Lord that He loves me enough to change me and never leave me the same, even if those changes involve consequences that may hurt a little or a lot. I pray that everyday we search the ways to teaching, rebuke, correct, and train the way God(LOVE) would.
ReplyDelete1. "Freedom equals choices, which equals consequences, which equals love." How is it actually a demonstration of love to allow people to face the consequences for their actions? How does it demonstrate lack of love to rescue people from the consequences of their chosen behavior?
ReplyDeleteI can't help but think about how people can get defensive when questioned by other people about their choices. But, when the consequences that fallow those choices are seeminigly too hard to bare, they look to other people to pull them from the pit. However, as a former pit escapee, I know that God was the one who pulled me out when the consequences could have continued to get so much worse. So assuming that I am understanding the question correctly, I believe there isn't anything we as humans can do for eachother. We can only point them to the Lord and let Him do the rest. God is the restorer of our hearts and minds. If by letting someone deal with their consequences on their own they find God, then Amen. If by stopping to find out what's going on and directing them to the Father, then Amen to that too.
2. In your opinion, do pastors and believers answer to different standards before God? Why or why not?
Yes!!!!
Mark 9:42
42"And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck."
Pastors had better make sure what we teach is correct.
1. "Freedom equals choices, which equals consequences, which equals love." How is it actually a demonstration of love to allow people to face the consequences for their actions? How does it demonstrate lack of love to rescue people from the consequences of their chosen behavior?
ReplyDeleteGod Gave us the freedom to choose Him. Our NOT choosing Him gives us consequences, which should turn us back to Him. God loves us so much that he would rather see us suffer consequences in order to come back to Him than get everything and lose eternal life! He (God) is more focused on the long-term (eternal) consequences and we wallow in our eartly temporal consequences, when we should be learning from them and be in the process of being made perfect.
Example: our children are loved by us (no doubt) and we do not want to see them suffer. When they make wrong decisions, one of the best things that we can do is have them face the logical consequences of their actions and not resuce them from every situation. Rescuing them does not teach them in the long run. I enjoy reading about "Love and Logic" parenting strategies, which teach you to let children have the freedom to make choices (even bad ones) while they are young and under your roof so that they can face the consequences of their choices while the "stakes are relatively low" so that they can learn to make good decisions as they grow older. It goes back to God wanting us to make the right decisions, but letting us face consequences because He love us enough to want to purify us for HIS KINGDOM!
In your opinion, do pastors and believers answer to different standards before God? Why or why not?
ReplyDeleteJames 3:1 "Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly."
Hebrews 13:17: "Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They must keep watch over you as men who must give an account."
1. "Freedom equals choices, which equals consequences, which equals love." How is it actually a demonstration of love to allow people to face the consequences for their actions? How does it demonstrate lack of love to rescue people from the consequences of their chosen behavior?
ReplyDeleteEvery choice we have produces a consequence, how we look at those mistakes is up to us. I was in a recent conversation with someone who is afraid to fail, it is because someone who walked beside me, showed my sin to me and the consequence it produced, in a non-judgemental manner, done in love, that opened my eyes and removed the blinders from me. It's like the old saying, give a man a fish, he eats for a day; however, teach a man to fish, and he'll eat for his life time. I would rather go through the hard consequences and learn from my Father in Heaven, than Him just giving me a pacifier. When we confront the person about their sin, lay out the possible consequences of that sin or the sin they are thinking, show them, some get it, realize they made a mistake and learn from it.
Touching on what Brandy said about us loving our children and not wanting them to see them suffer, is hard as a parent, but in the long run, it's better. Our children actually learn from a mistake. I've learned from my trials and mistakes that years down the road, God brought someone to me who was going through the same thing I did years before. When I see a brother struggling in a sin that I'm familiar with, I feel for him in a way, knowing what consequences are ahead of him, because I went through them. I like the brother that will tell me things that maybe I don't want to hear. It's easier to talk to a person knowing they walked the same path you did.
One of my favorite scriptures is Psalm 32:
1 Blessed is he
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
2 Blessed is the man
whose sin the LORD does not count against him
and in whose spirit is no deceit.
3 When I kept silent,
my bones wasted away
through my groaning all day long.
4 For day and night
your hand was heavy upon me;
my strength was sapped
as in the heat of summer.
Selah
5 Then I acknowledged my sin to you
and did not cover up my iniquity.
I said, "I will confess
my transgressions to the LORD "—
and you forgave
the guilt of my sin.
In verses 3-4 totally hits home, the choice of my sin and hiding it, all my energy is drained, all the stuff that was coming out from that sin just beat me up and hurt others as well - the consequences. Then the sin was confronted and exposed, shown to me by someone, and then realizing that what I have done was wrong to God, confessing all of my sin, and learning from what I did. Can't go back and change what I did, but knowing that God forgave me and knowing the person I've sinned against forgave me as well, was a relief.
2. In your opinion, do pastors and believers answer to different standards before God? Why or why not?
YES. As pastor's we have to humble our selves before the Lord knowing that we will be judged more strictly. It's important, ties into the first question. We need to keep a strong account to one another, for this reason in my opinion.